Libby Emmons: Why Biological Men Are Entering Women’s Prisons Across America and the West

“Federal prisons have been tasked with making sure that they are not transphobic by allowing men who identify as women … into women’s federal prisons.”

Libby Emmons was a playwright and producer in the New York theater community until she faced the ire of both her peers and her audience. Her crime? The views she held on gender ideology.

“The ‘ask’ by these trans activists, which I do not believe includes all trans people, or all gay people, or anything like that—this is an activist ‘ask’, and the ‘ask’ is to erase women. The ‘ask’ is to completely change the language, change our understanding of reality, and to tell us not to believe our eyes, not to believe our senses, but to believe what we are told to believe. This is indoctrination on a mass scale,” says Emmons.

Today, Emmons is the editor-in-chief of The Post Millennial and Human Events, where she writes frequently about cultural trends related to race and gender in America.

“By conflating gender identity and biological sex and then—essentially because you have changed the definitions—rewriting all the laws today that have protections for women, you are changing the entire structure of society, and you’re doing it by not even having to pass any laws. You don’t have to do anything but completely corrupt the language,” Emmons says.

We discuss many of the gender-related changes in society today, including biological males in women’s prisons and on women’s sports teams, “gender-affirming care” for minors, rewriting the definition of “woman,” and how transhumanism and transgender ideology embrace a similar mission.

“The Department of Agriculture took this directive and said, ‘Okay, so we give out a bunch of funding for free student lunches across the country so that kids can eat lunch … If your school has a policy of not allowing gender self-ID for washroom access—for bathroom access—then we will withhold free lunch aid,” says Emmons. “You can’t even quantify how many women commit crimes in Canada because men are included in that number.”

Interview trailer:

Watch the full interview: https://www.theepochtimes.com/libby-emmons-why-biological-men-are-entering-womens-prisons-across-america-and-the-west_5327403.html

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jan Jekielek: Libby Emmons, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Libby Emmons: Thanks so much, Jan.

Mr. Jekielek: Let’s start with a headline from the publication where you are the chief editor, The Post Millennial. “Protestors demand removal of trans-identified males from New Jersey women’s prison.” Sub-headline, “”The solution to male violence in male prisons is not male violence in women’s prisons. This needs to stop. Get men out!” This is a quote from one of the inmates, presumably. This is an issue that you’ve been covering for quite some time. Let’s dig right into it.

Ms. Emmons: There have been some changes in law, and in the definition of words, that have enabled males who claim to be women to gain access to women’s prisons and to be housed there. Many of these men are violent, and many of these men have committed crimes against women. They find themselves then surrounded by women in prisons that are remarkably less secure, and locked down than the male prisons are.

A man’s prison, men’s maximum security prisons and women’s maximum security prisons have very different levels of security. A women’s maximum security prison is more like a man’s medium security prison. You get a lot more benefits and freedoms, such as they are, than you would in a male prison.

Mr. Jekielek: What you’re suggesting is that there might be some people perhaps looking to game the system.

Ms. Emmons: Any man who has been incarcerated and then decides that he is actually transgender and identifies as a woman, and seeks entry into a women’s prison is a grifter and a fraud. These are not the same men who are trans prior to committing crimes, and ending up in prison. These are men in a lot of cases, who end up locked up, then decide they’re women, and then seek entry into women’s prisons. That happens a lot, as it turns out. I don’t think those men are doing anything other than trying to get a better housing situation for their time in lockup, really.

Mr. Jekielek: Or worse, as this headline would suggest.

Ms. Emmons: Yes.

Mr. Jekielek: What exactly is happening in this New Jersey prison?

Ms. Emmons: In New Jersey prisons, men are given access to women’s prisons simply by saying that they are female. There was a man, Demi Minor is his trans name, who impregnated two women, was then removed, and has sought to gain entry back. I’m pretty sure that’s the only women’s prison in New Jersey. The women don’t like it. The women don’t want men in their prisons, for a variety of reasons. Many women who are in prison have suffered domestic violence at the hands of men, and now, here they are subjected to the potential of more male violence.

Having spoken to women who are either currently incarcerated in women’s prisons, or who have been released and had served time in women’s prisons, there are other concerns as well, such as the changing dynamic that happens among women when a man is introduced. You also have a situation in California, where I was talking to one inmate at the Central California Women’s Correctional Facility, who was saying that when a man comes into the women’s estate, oftentimes an eight woman prison cell will be cleared, and the man will be housed there.

This one woman, Tomiekia Johnson, was telling me that one man that was housed there got the eight person prison cell to himself, and then was actually allowed to have a woman in that cell with him, with whom he was enjoying sort of playing house, and they had some kind of relationship. There are additional atrocities and horrors that we can discuss, of what happens to women who are locked in prison with male criminals who claim to be women.

Mr. Jekielek: I definitely want to touch on that. But since you mentioned California, there’s actually a new law signed in by Governor Gavin Newsom, as I understand it.

Ms. Emmons: It was signed into law by Gavin Newsom. It was brought by California State Senator Scott Wiener, who is an absolute and complete menace to California. At one point, I actually talked to New York State Senator Brad Hoylman’s office. The person I spoke with on the phone there revealed to me with pride that Hoylman and Wiener work together to bring similar bills in California and New York, which I think is actually really terrifying, given the conditions in New York.

Wiener brought this bill, and it was signed into law. As soon as it was signed into law inmates in male correctional facilities petitioned to be moved into women’s correctional facilities, 261 trans-identified inmates. Of these there were hardly any trans men, and the trans men’s petitions to be moved into the male prisons were denied, clearly for their own safety. Yet, no one had any concern about the women who were going to be impacted by the men transferring in.

All 261 of those cases have yet seen the man transferred into the women’s prison. But there are increasing numbers, and each case is reviewed., However, even prior to this law being signed into effect, there were men who claimed to be women who were given access to the women’s prisons. In those cases, the man had to have undergone surgery. There was actually a case of a man called Jessica Marie Hann, who after being castrated, ended up being housed in the same prison with the woman who was mother of the two children that he had murdered.

Mr. Jekielek: Unbelievable. How exactly does this relatively new California law change things?

Ms. Emmons: It changes things because now you have women who are at the mercy of these men, yet again. When I talked to Ms. Johnson about it, she said that women were extremely unhappy about it. No one likes this. The California prison system started putting condoms machines in women’s prisons. Being locked up in prison, why would women need condoms?

You only need condoms if you’re going to be subjected to men, and having sex with men. Now, there are men in the prisons, who only have to self ID. I certainly don’t think that the state should be forcefully drugging anyone, but they don’t even have to be taking estrogen. They don’t have to show that their manhood is non-functioning. In fact, their manhood is functioning.

Tomeikia Johnson also told me, and this is something that I have not personally verified, though she did tell me that she spoke with guards. She told me that a woman that she knew did fall pregnant to a man who said he was a woman, in the prison. Then, he beat her mercilessly so that she would miscarry. The miscarried child got buried in the prison yard.

Mr. Jekielek: Unbelievable stories. Does the law say that self ID is basically enough to make that transfer?

Ms. Emmons: Self ID, yes. Self ID is enough. It’s enough to say that you are the opposite sex, to be believed that you are the opposite sex. Self ID, of course, is what is permeating so many of these laws. That’s a huge part of what goes on.

Mr. Jekielek: But the activists for these laws would say, “There were all these trans men in the male prisons, and were in danger. Finally, they can be their true selves in this new place.” I imagine that’s what they would say.

Ms. Emmons: Sure. But that doesn’t change the nature of your biology, and it certainly doesn’t change the impact that a male person can have on a large group of women, many of whom have already suffered abuse at the hands of men. It’s just inhumane to think that one man’s feeling that he is unsafe in a prison means that he needs to create a situation where hundreds of other women are completely unsafe. Why is his need so much greater? In England, they decided to create separate sections for trans inmates, because they were finding that there was trouble.

There have been rapes all through the system; New Jersey, Washington state, Illinois, Massachusetts, Nova Scotia, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, and in England. We’ve seen this all across the board. Obviously, not all men perpetrate violence against women. But why do we now have this feeling that men who have been locked up are now all of a sudden not going to perpetrate violent crimes against women, even though that’s what they have been convicted of?

Mr. Jekielek: There’s a recent disclosure that James O’Keefe made about male inmates, exactly this situation. In the recording there is a discussion of gaming the system by getting someone pregnant, getting them to sue the correctional system, and thereby getting a million dollar baby. Have you heard about anything like this?

Ms. Emmons: I’ve heard about this just like you, with the James O’Keefe story. Certainly, gaming the system is something that’s going to be on the minds of criminals who have been working to game the system for whoever knows how long. There were rapes in Washington state prisons. Dori Monson, who was a radio talk show host in Washington state, had covered that. He recently died, I believe. He had covered that a while back, but nobody wanted to believe it, and nobody wanted to discuss it.

There could be a lawsuit that would maybe say, “This woman was victimized because this man was let into the prison and raped her.” That would show the fallacy of this law. What if California were to suffer some result where they had to pay out a million dollars, admit their guilt and admit their complicity in the rape of women where they are literally locked up? They can’t leave, and they can’t go anywhere else.

When they complain about men being in women’s prisons and say, “There’s these men around,” they are told that they are bigots. They are told that they are transphobic, and that they are the problem. You are gaslighting these women, you’re further traumatizing these women, and California certainly should be held liable.

Mr. Jekielek: How long has this been going on?

Ms. Emmons: In California, this has been going on since 2021. But we also have a situation where it’s very hard to tell how long it’s been going on, in somewhere like Canada. Heather Mason, who was incarcerated for a time, has come out of prison and has spoken out against men being incarcerated along with women. But in Canada, they did this totally insane thing, where they said that men who identify as women, are now counted as women. They said, “We’re going to take this new definition of woman, and we’re going to apply it to our statistics.”

In Canada, in statistics for crime, you will see statistics of women raping women. Those women are actually men, but their crimes are now part of this statistical database of women’s crimes. You can’t even look at the data and get an accurate understanding of what has been going on, because the lies are embedded in the system. They are embedded into the system. They changed the definition of woman, and then they changed the statistics recording data to match that lie. So, you can’t tell. How long have men been in women’s prisons? No one knows, because the government tells you that they are women.

Mr. Jekielek: That’s absolutely incredible.

Ms. Emmons: It is absolutely incredible. It’s happening in the U.S. right now. President Biden has been working really hard with his team to change the definition of woman to be anyone who identifies as a woman. Then, he is using this definition and tasking every single federal agency to use this new definition of women as they introduce and implement their policies. He put out a couple of executive orders about this, saying, “Department of Agriculture, Department of Education, Department of Health and Human Services, I need you to use this new definition of woman. Reassess all of your policies and programs, and make sure that you’re not being biased against men who say that they’re women. Use this new definition.”

By conflating gender identity and biological sex, because you have changed the definitions, you are rewriting all the laws to date that have protections for women. You are changing the entire structure of society, and you’re doing it by not even having to pass any laws. You don’t have to do anything but completely corrupt the language. Federal prisons have been tasked with making sure that they are not transphobic, by allowing men who identify as women into women’s federal prisons. They’re working on that.

The Department of Agriculture took this directive and said, “We give out funding for free student lunches across the country, so that kids can eat lunch.” If their parents don’t have the money for lunch, kids can still eat lunch. They said, “If your school has a policy of not allowing gender self ID for bathroom access, then we will withhold free lunch aid.” That’s what the Department of Agriculture said.

The Department of Health and Human Services, they are doing their own thing to make sure that insurance companies pay for gender transition surgeries. The Department of Health and Human Services Assistant Secretary Dr. Rachel Levine is a man who underwent gender transition after having his own children, and now advocates for the sterilization of minors through gender-affirming care, as they call it, which is absolutely another bastardization of language.

Levine is out there saying, “Insurance companies must cover what is essentially cosmetic surgery for men who want to appear as women.” But he does not advocate covering for women’s surgery to appear more female, for breast enlargement or whatever it is. In a sense, Biden is boosting boob jobs for men through the Department of Health and Human Services. He’s pushing for boys and girls to be in opposite sex bathrooms in schools.

We saw what happened in Loudoun County, Virginia, where a trans-identified student raped a girl in a bathroom, and then the school board covered it up, at length. That turned into such a giant headache, for not just that school district, but for the entire country. In 2021, the father of the girl who was raped in the bathroom went to a school board meeting. He said, “My daughter was raped in the bathroom by this trans student, and you guys didn’t do anything about it.” This was the same school board meeting where a gym teacher was coming under fire for not wanting to use the preferred pronouns of students.

This father showing up at the school board meeting, led directly over a period of time, to the Department of Justice instructing the FBI to investigate parents with the same tools that they use to investigate domestic extremism, if those parents complain at school board meetings about anything from masking to, apparently, their daughters being raped in the bathroom.

The Department of Education is using Biden’s brand new definitions for women that include men, to insist that males are permitted to play on women’s sports teams, and threatening to withhold funding from any academic institution that doesn’t allow that. Title IX was put into place to make sure that women had equal opportunities to compete in sports, and now, Title IX is being used directly to deprive women of the right to compete on an equal playing field in athletic competition in schools.

It’s absolutely insane. It’s just absolutely insane. It starts with the most minuscule little thing, which is asking compassion for those who feel differently about themselves. Women were asked to be compassionate for trans-identified males, “Let them say that they are women. That’s all they’re asking for. They just want to be recognized as women.” We have taken that little tiny kernel—calling a man a woman—and we have turned it into removing protections for women in the workplace, removing protections for women in prisons, and removing protections for children not to undergo medical sex changes as minors. We are taking away free lunches. We are taking away all of these things from women, who just had that one little ask. “Be compassionate, just say that the men are women. That’s all we’re asking.”

No. That’s not all they’re asking. The ask by these trans activists, which I do not believe includes all trans people or gay people, is an activist ask— and the ask is to erase women. The ask is to completely change the language, and change our understanding of reality. The ask is to tell us not to believe our eyes, not to believe our senses, but to believe what we are told to believe. This is an indoctrination on a mass scale, and it’s absolutely horrifying.

We saw this happening so far back in the arts. I was involved in the arts, and it was somewhere around 2007 when I started seeing this. Because when you’re in the arts, you ask for money. You put in for grants, and you say, “I want to do this project, please give me money to do it.” A lot of times the foundations want to give money to their own pet causes. You would put in a grant proposal for a project, and you would say, “I am a woman artist. Please give me money because I am a woman artist, and I’m writing about women.” The proposals said, “Must be a woman artist.” Then, they started to change and started saying, “Must be a woman, or woman-identified artist.”

I was someone who was making their money off grants, and I had funded my entire maternity leave off grant money. I remember looking at this and saying, “What is woman-identified? Does that mean men? Am I now competing for women’s grant money alongside men, just like I’m competing alongside men for the bulk of the other grant proposals?”

What is the difference now, except that that man who says he’s a woman is a much special-er woman, then just your basic woman? I was just born this way, but now he identifies as a woman, and this is special and new. I was concerned that this kind of thing might eventually happen. I spoke out about it to my friends who were also in the arts, and they would say things like, “I can see how that’s logical, but that’s crazy.” At the time, I would speak about this to my other liberal friends. Everyone would say, “This is crazy.” Now, here we are, in Congress, they took away the word mother. They replaced it with parent and birthing person.

You had Cori Bush, a congresswoman from Missouri who rose to prominence during BLM, Michael Brown in St. Louis, and that whole situation. She literally went to Congress to give her testimony about her difficulty birthing her children, as a mother. What happened to her in the medical system.

Cori Bush: I am committed to doing the absolute most to protect black mothers, to protect black babies, to protect black birthing people, and to save lives.

Ms. Emmons: What we have done to mothers is taken away their language to identify themselves, because somehow saying that you’re mother is offensive to someone who is not. It’s absolutely insane. It began with the destruction of language, and here we are. You can’t even quantify how many women commit crimes in Canada, because men are included in that number.

Mr. Jekielek: You’re talking about discovering that this new terminology appeared around 2007 in the arts scene, and you became up in arms about it. A few things happened after that, you becoming the chief editor for The Post Millennial and Human Events. There was some cancellation along the way, correct?

Ms. Emmons: Yes.

Mr. Jekielek: Please tell me the story. What happened to you?

Ms. Emmons: Yes, I was writing plays. I was producing plays in downtown New York, which is really the only downtown in the universe as far as I’m concerned. We were producing plays downtown. My friends and I were in residence at a poetry club, Bowery Poetry Club, which was great. It actually closed in 2012. I wrote a play called, “How to Sell Your Gang Rape Baby for Parts,” and it was very much about all this stuff.

The play was about two HR professionals. My friend and I played those characters. All of the action happened off-stage, it was just the two of us. We had a trans boss, and we had an intern who had been raped by a football team and was now pregnant, and the insurance didn’t cover an abortion, so the boss was fundraising for the abortion. There was just all of this stuff. One of the characters decided that they wanted to get female genderization surgery, which is where you become even more female. You get all of the accoutrements that you might get as a trans-identified male who’s undergoing this stuff.

Anyway, it was very satirical, it was very dark, and audiences would either crack up laughing because they understood that it was a joke, or they would just gasp in horror. But I did not really feel like this was doing enough. A lot of people couldn’t tell who I was sending up. Was I sending up the Left, or was I sending up the Right? Who was I critiquing in this?

I started doing some research into transhumanism, which is a fascinating concept. I wrote this piece for Quillette, which I had heard about from podcasts with Jordan Peterson. It was about the undercurrents of transhumanism in Western culture, which I identified as transgender ideology, and AI human integration, such as Neuralink, and also body hacking, which is like where you could put RFID [Radio Frequency Identification] chips in your hands, and open your garage door.

The story went pretty viral. With the people in the theater community it took about six months before anyone noticed that I had written this, which was fine with me. I just kept doing my work. But eventually, the theater community got wind of this, decided that I was transphobic, and I essentially lost my audience. No one was going to come see my plays, once it was determined that I was transphobic.

In fact, once when I started to go to other plays, people that I knew would just ignore me entirely. My friends that I was doing a theater project with said, “Maybe if you apologize, we can still do our project. Maybe if you apologize to the non-binary lesbians who are angry because you think trans people are weird future robot people. Maybe if you apologize, we’ll be okay.”

I said, “You guys, I’ll never do that. You know me better than that.” My theater company closed. We had a nice beautiful space to produce this musical that we were working on. We lost the grant, because the theater company closed, and the women didn’t want to work on the project anymore. I said, “Listen, just take the project. I’ll leave the company. You guys just work on the project.” They were like, “No, it’s your project. Everyone knows it’s your project, so we can’t just do it.”

They were angry with me, and we’re no longer friends. Some of the women I was friends with for a very long time, going back to college. I don’t know what they’re doing now. I’ve given this a lot of thought, since this happened in October 2018. At first, I was very angry with them, but I think that to a certain extent they were right. We had no company if we had no audience, and no one was going to come see a show that I was involved in.

I know that they agreed with me, though, that men aren’t women. They know that fully. None of these women were in their 20s. They all know very clearly that being a man is not being a woman. It’s a totally different thing. I do wonder if we could have stayed friends. I reached out to them over a period of weeks saying, “I think we could do this, guys. It doesn’t have to be like this.” I got no response, so I just decided to stop writing artwork, and start writing a lot more directly about these issues, which I did.

Mr. Jekielek: I vaguely recall the piece that you’re talking about now. I don’t remember there being anything against trans people.

Ms. Emmons: Yes. If you say you have nothing against trans people, that’s just more evidence of your transphobia. As a producer of plays, I produced the work of trans playwrights. I produced plays about trans issues, and gender, and identity, and all of that stuff. Because for me, if it was well written, if it told the story well, if it was compelling, I was interested in producing it. I wasn’t interested in your identity. I wasn’t interested in the identity of your characters. I was interested in producing artwork that made you feel something.

Over a period of the following year, I would get emails from people who said, “We no longer need your play for this project,” or, “We’re giving you the rights back for your play and we’re not going to produce it.” I had one instance where someone reached out to me and said, “Would you like to be in this project?” I said, “Yes, thank you so much. I would love to be involved in this project.” I thought, “Oh, it’s over. It’s over. It’s okay now.” But no, they realized instantly that that was the wrong thing to do, and they never contacted me again.

There were certainly some artists who either didn’t know, or didn’t care, and I worked with them for a while. But it was pretty clear that there wasn’t going to be space for me on a stage with audiences who would come, once they knew who I was and what had happened, and what the story was. So, I gave it up. I gave up theater.

Mr. Jekielek: Talking about trans in minors and in the schools is not just academic for you, you have a son.

Ms. Emmons: I have a son, he is 13-years-old.

Mr. Jekielek: That’s right. There is a policy in a lot of schools that now this is something that should be kept secret from parents. I’ve been discovering lately that this is much more common than I realized.

Ms. Emmons: Yes.

Mr. Jekielek: I don’t know if you were even thinking about this back then, but obviously you were in the midst of realizing what this whole activist movement was.

Ms. Emmons: Yes. In 2016, the American School Counselors Association sent out a directive to schools saying that you could be causing harm to students by telling the parents that counselors are having this gender identity conversation in school. Essentially, the idea is that parents are likely to be so abusive that you will be harming students by telling their parents what’s going on with them at school. This is absolutely insane, and part of why it’s insane is because of the way language has been used to completely bastardize the entire conversation.

First of all, gender identity doesn’t mean anything. Everyone is gender-nonconforming. Everyone has things about themselves, or their desires, or their interests, that do not specifically align with the stereotypical understanding of male and female. Of course, we all do. I played with mud pies, and my cousin played with dolls. They were wrestling dolls, but they were still dolls.

When you consider it like that, if you are female, your body is female. That’s just how it is. It’s a biological condition, and yes, there’s stuff that goes along with that. Every woman is more or less involved with that. You think of Dr. Deborah Soh, who speaks about her understanding that she was exposed to more testosterone in the womb, and this is perhaps why she has sometimes more masculine interests. She’s still very much female. That’s just obvious. It’s very clear. It doesn’t matter that perhaps she has more masculine interests, that doesn’t make her less female.

That’s part of it too. They say to a little boy, “You like to wear a dress, that means you’re a girl.” Probably what it means is the little boy is not feeling more comfortable with a gender identity, but it has something to do with the way his skin feels or the way that air moves in those clothes. There’s no big deal about that, and that’s a perfectly fine thing. Kids are just weird.

I remember when my son was little and he would have something he would want to do. I would say, “Okay, but what’s your weird kid reason?” He would say, “Because I just wanted to go pick up that leaf.” I replied, “Okay, that’s not a good reason to run in front of the truck, so just hang on. We can get you the leaf.” They’re not actually suicidal, because they’re aiming to run in front of the truck. They are just trying to pick up a leaf.

Mr. Jekielek: Kids come up with all sorts of things.

Ms. Emmons: Kids have weird reasons.

Mr. Jekielek: Kids play make believe, and this is part of growing up.

Ms. Emmons: Right. Some kids decide they’re tractors for a while. It’s not a big deal, and you don’t affirm that your kid is a tractor. But meanwhile, you had President Biden coming out last year on Transgender Day of Visibility, which is a brand new, made up, stupid holiday, saying, “Parents, affirm your kids.” He did it all like this, “Affirm your kids.”

Joe Biden: To parents of transgender children, affirming your child’s identity is one of the most powerful things you can do to keep them safe and healthy.

Ms. Emmons: I don’t even think he knows what affirming your kids means. A lot of parents hear, “Affirm your kids,” and it sounds very positive. It sounds compassionate and kind. But what it really means is, “Stop your child from growing up naturally. Stop your child from having natural puberty, and growing up into an adult. Halt that progress, and put them on cross-sex hormones to disrupt their brain development, disrupt their bone and muscle development, and to permanently change their bodies. In boys, estrogen will stunt their growth. In girls, testosterone will deepen their voices and give them facial hair, forever.

In many cases, this also will lead to sterilization, certainly, if you have a boy who undergoes vaginoplasty, which is the removal of the penis, and its inversion to create the appearance of a vaginal opening. This is not a vaginal opening, there’s no ovaries in there. There’s no uterus. Why does any woman have a vagina? A woman has a vagina because it’s part of a reproductive system that creates more human beings. That’s the whole point of our reproductive systems.

A boy will become sterile once you put him on these drugs, and remove his penis. Marci Bowers, one of the surgeons who operated on Jazz Jennings, had a reality TV show documenting his journey from baby boy to adult transgender-identified male. Marci Bowers has operated on countless trans patients, was the head of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, which identifies eunuch as a valid gender identity in their latest guidelines. Bowers was on a panel and said that they had never seen a boy patient who had gone on puberty blockers and onto cross-sex hormones grow up to have an orgasm.

Marci Bowers: Every single child who was, or adolescent who was truly blocked at Tanner stage 2 has has never experienced orgasm.

Ms. Emmons: When you put your son on puberty blockers, and on to cross-sex hormones, you are not only denying them a life of reproductive capability, you are denying them a life of any kind of sexual pleasure. What does that mean? Maybe you could say, “Oh, that’s shallow. Who needs that, anyway?” But what is sexual pleasure, in the context of a loving relationship? It’s a big deal. It’s part of a loving, thoughtful, caring relationship, where you give each other pleasure.

But these boys will never have pleasure. Jazz Jennings has spoken about never having an orgasm, not even understanding what that means. At one point, Jennings said, “Is it kind of like a sneeze?” Jennings will never have sexual pleasure, and will never have children. That is what happens.

When you have gender-affirming care for a young girl, we’re seeing now that a young girl will hit puberty, and will decide that she does not feel great about growing up female.

Let’s be honest, when you’re a female and you hit puberty and you realize what’s ahead of you, it is not an amazing experience. You’re talking about that there’s going to be blood. It’s probably going to be embarrassing. You can bleed through your clothing. This is a terrible thing that happens. It has happened to me. It’s happened to every woman, and it sucks.

Your body’s going to change, and you’re going to get curvy. Nobody’s going to let you climb trees anymore. Boys are going to look at you weirdly. Suddenly you’re going to be less strong than the boys. The boys are going to get stronger. You’re not going to be as fast as them at hurdles, or whatever it is. Nobody wants that. I struggled with growing up female until I was in my 30s, until I said, “Oh, okay. It’s okay. ”

In many of these clinics, age 13 is where they will remove your breasts, and they will do it. There’s a doctor in Miami who removes breasts. She calls it, “yeeting the teets,” and carries no malpractice insurance because then it’s harder to sue. Because no one’s going to take up a case if the doctor doesn’t have malpractice insurance, because they’re not going to get any money. That’s crazy.

You are removing the healthy breasts of a young girl before she’s had a chance to consider motherhood and consider nursing. What is nursing? Nursing is not just nourishment for your child. It is a bonding thing. Also, once you take the breasts away, you lose sensation in that area. Again, we are depriving pleasure.

When you put a young woman on testosterone, she’s going to experience vaginal atrophy, which is a very painful condition. There’s even a trans-identified woman, Buck Angel, who talks about having had vaginal atrophy. Angel presents as male and looks very male. Nobody said to Angel, “You’re going to have this experience.” Vaginal atrophy can result in tearing, bleeding, and all kinds of horrible things. Uterine atrophy happens as well, and it is very painful.

This is a sterilization process. Bowers and other trans doctors have said this, along with men who did their whole medical training and had children, then decided that they’re trans, and go around operating on minors who are feeling this way.

It’s not affirming. Affirming your child means telling them that you love them, telling them they are beautiful just the way that they are, encouraging them in their talents and gifts, letting them know that how the outside world views them has absolutely nothing to do with who they are or what they’re capable of, and giving them pride in themselves, regardless of whether or not someone uses their correct pronouns. That’s what affirmation is. It is giving your kids the opportunity to grow up whole, without medical intervention.

That’s already been wiped out in our culture. We already have a situation where children are being overprescribed. They’re being classified as having mental health issues, and they’re being given psych drugs. A lot of the kids who are being given anti-psych drugs are black boys in foster care in the South. Why are we doing this?

If these kids are unmanageable, it’s probably because they’re in foster care and they’re having a tough time. It’s not because of anything inherently wrong with them or their brains. They’re growing up in crappy situations. They need love. They need actual affirmation. They don’t need psych drugs.

The New York Times did an expose over the summer about the drug cocktails that teenagers are put on, that are not FDA approved for their age group. We’re over prescribing our kids. We’re telling them they have mental health concerns. We’re telling them they can be any gender they want. We’re watching them release videos on TikTok, talking about how their pronouns are demon, and demon self.

Jasper: Hi, my name’s Jasper. I use they/it pronouns.

Liana: Hi, my name is Liana. I use they/demon pronouns.

Jasper: This video is how to use our pronouns.

Ms. Emmons: We’re acting as though this is in some way legitimate. We’re not teaching our children that growing up into an adult is a great thing to grow up to be. We’re not teaching them that being parents is really a pretty spectacular thing to grow up to be. We’re not teaching them to engage in their own gifts and in their own love of learning. People who identify as this, have been co-opted themselves, they’re part of the LGBTQIA2S community, or what have you. Maybe it’s a large number of activists, or maybe it’s a small number of activists. Nobody knows because they’re very loud and they drown out everybody else.

You have gays against groomers who say, “Listen, we’re gay. We hate all of this. We’re not into it. We don’t want porn in schools. We don’t want you gender transitioning children.” Because the other thing too is that many of these kids, if left to their own devices, would just grow up gay. We’re eliminating lesbians. We’re eliminating gay men.

Our culture has long since accepted lesbians and gay men, and now we are turning our back on them and saying, “Actually, if you’re a woman and you’re sexually attracted to other women, that probably means you’re a man.” “If you’re a man and you’re sexually attracted to other men, that probably means you’re a woman.”

Mr. Jekielek: I want to touch on the surgeries for minors, which you’ve mentioned a couple of times. There was testimony in the Tennessee House recently where experts testified that just simply doesn’t happen.

Ms. Emmons: It does happen, and you have women who said it happens to them. We watched it happen to Jazz Jennings on live television. Chloe Cole had her breasts removed at a young age. There are many more women who have had this happen to them as minors.

Mr. Jekielek: I’m very aware that this is happening to minors, but it’s bizarre that experts will come in and say, “This just isn’t real.”

Ms. Emmons: The really wild thing is not that they will say that it’s not real, because we are already being lied to about this stuff all the time. For example, there was an instance over the summer. Boston Children’s Hospital had put out a number of promotional videos about their gender clinic for kids. It was all over their website with massive production and beautiful graphics. It was very sweet and calm, saying, “Everything’s going to be just fixed and great once you come into this gender clinic.”

“This is how we remove breasts. This is how we remove penises. This is how we remove ovaries, and it’s all so affirming. This is how we make sure you get puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. Families have moved here to Boston because we give them this care.” It’s so-called, “care,” which is a complete bastardization of the word, obviously. “We give them this care where they can’t get it anywhere else.”

The videos were on their website. Also on their website were intake forms, which gave guidance for different kinds of surgeries. I have this stored on my computer, I downloaded it. Vaginoplasty is at age 17, and mastectomies at age 13. It said it right there, in black and white pixels, in these PDFs.

We reported on this at The Post Millennial. We did a rather in-depth report. Chris Elston, who goes by Billboard Chris on Twitter, had also recorded a bunch of these videos, and we worked with him. Libs of TikTok, an account that exposes the Leftist insanity in their own words, she put something on Twitter about how minors were being given hysterectomies.

On the Boston Children’s Hospital website, it said age 18 for phalloplasty. The extrapolation was that if you can get a phalloplasty at 17, there’s a substantial amount of surgical procedure that has to go into it before you can get the phalloplasty. The idea was that you could start it prior to being 18, so that you’d be ready for the surgery at 18. That was the extrapolation.

However, there was a massive fact check engagement. Everyone got slammed, “This never happens.” All the fact-checkers said, “This never happens.” Boston Children’s Hospital said, “This never happens,” because they just latched onto that one thing. Perhaps the hysterectomy doesn’t actually happen at 17, perhaps it happens at 18. We don’t even necessarily know, but this is what they said.

They used just that one little assertion, that one little assumption, to debunk all of the research that was done. Even though the research that was done was simply exposing the videos that they had made, and the guidance that they had written. It was a misdirection.

What happened after that is that we doubled down, and we just kept talking about it. Libs of TikTok then went on to expose another children’s hospital who said, “Yes, hysterectomy at age 17,” in Washington DC. You started seeing articles in the New York Times. First they were saying, “It’s not happening.” Then, they started saying, “It’s good that it’s happening.”

They can’t decide, really. When they get caught, first they try and tell you it’s not true, and then they tell you that it’s good. I don’t believe anything that they’re saying about it not happening, and they don’t either. Because as soon as they realize it is happening, they’ll just tell you it’s good. To use the word Orwellian is almost an understatement at this point. It’s so double-plus-ungood, what they’re doing here.

Mr. Jekielek: I want to go back to what you were writing about transhumanism, and what further thoughts you have had.

Ms. Emmons: In a lot of ways, transhumanism and transgender ideology are attempting to answer the Cartesian question about the mind body split. Are the mind and the body connected? Are they two separate things? Does what you do to one have an impact on the other? This, of course, was Descartes. “I think, therefore, I am.”

Transgender ideology and transhumanism both say that the mind and the body are completely distinct, and that what happens to the one has no impact on the other. That’s the going idea. What happens in my mind I can manifest on my body, and then that changes my body because I have changed it, and my mind rules.

Mr. Jekielek: Or I will use technology to do that.

Ms. Emmons: Transgender medicine is medical technology. That’s what it is. A hundred years ago, there wouldn’t be puberty blockers. Puberty blockers are a technological development, isolating male and female hormones into a drug, and giving them to someone. That’s a medical technological advancement.

Trans implementation is technological. You can’t cut off someone’s penis and create the appearance of a vagina in its place without medical technology. That’s exactly what it is. The idea is that I can change my body to match the image of myself in my head. That’s the first step. The other step is, “I can make everyone else believe it too. If everyone else doesn’t believe my delusion, there’s something wrong with them.”

Both of those things combined are really deadly, and it’s why Jordan Peterson first came to prominence talking about how he would not be compelled to speak a person’s pronouns. The idea behind what he was saying was that you cannot force me to lie. I will not lie just because you tell me to. We need to stick to that. We need to not lie just because we are told to.

What is gender-affirming care? It is child sex changes. That’s what that is. Don’t lie about it. Don’t use these words that are complete fabrications designed to obfuscate the truth and obfuscate reality. I certainly understand preferred pronouns in personal relationships, and it very much can be gray and dodgy. Ben Shapiro talks about this as well. But en masse, as a culture, we are lying to ourselves and to each other.

Jazz Jennings is not a female. Jazz Jennings is a butchered young man, who is trapped in a body that does not reflect who he is, as it turns out. It turns out you can’t change your body completely to match your image of yourself, and have that not have a huge impact on your mind. With these things, we are in concert, we are one being. It’s a pretty devastating situation we have here.

Mr. Jekielek: You are committed to exposing these things in your journalism, and in the journalism of your publications.

Ms. Emmons: Yes. We’re working really hard on that. The Post Millennial is dedicated to that. We have a writer whose entire project is to write about gender and these issues. We’ve talked to women who are incarcerated, and tried to get their stories. We’re really committed to that at Human Events as well, and we work on that. Yes, I’m really proud of the work that we’re doing at both outlets to expose this, and also to expose so many of the other fallacies that are being pushed on us by the political establishment right now.

People need to stand up, they need to know the truth, and they need to stand on that truth and not be swayed, no matter how many people tell you that you are not compassionate for not speaking lies.

Mr. Jekielek: Libby Emmons, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Ms. Emmons: Thanks so much, Jan.

Mr. Jekielek: Thank you all for joining Libby Emmons and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

This interview was edited for clarity and brevity.

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