Chaya Raichik, ‘Libs of TikTok’ Creator, on Classroom Indoctrination and TikTok ‘Narcissists’

“I think gender ideology, in general, is very narcissistic … It’s like, ‘These are my pronouns. This is my gender. Let me talk to you about how I want to be referred to and how you should refer to me,’ says Chaya Raichik, creator of the viral Twitter account “Libs of TikTok.”

“And the whole idea of an app, where you go online and you just film yourself talking … I think that it’s a really good match—those activists and TikTok—because TikTok is really a platform for narcissists.”

Raichik was doxxed in a controversial Washington Post article last year, and since then, she has embraced her public persona.

“I’m a Hasidic Jew. There’s a concept in Judaism that every single person is in this world for a reason. Every person has a purpose … Through running Libs of TikTok, I feel like this is my mission now. And I’m very empowered to continue doing it,” says Raichik.

Raichik and I discuss wokeness and indoctrination in the American education system, and dive into why Libs of TikTok has been so effective, having resulted in new legislation and even in the termination of school officials who promoted gender ideology or grooming in their classrooms.

“They create this content, and then I put it out there in their own words. And they don’t really want us to see it. They want to just live in their bubble, where everybody agrees with them. So, I’m posting this content and they just can’t handle it,” says Raichik. “My account really is just centered on protecting the innocence of children. That’s the main focus.”

Interview trailer:

Watch the full interview: https://www.theepochtimes.com/chaya-raichik-libs-of-tiktok-creator-on-classroom-indoctrination-and-tiktok-narcissists_5021412.html

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jan Jekielek:

Chaya Raichik, such a pleasure to have you on “American Thought Leaders”.

Chaya Raichik:

It’s so great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Mr. Jekielek:

As many of us have, I’ve been following your account, LibsofTikTok, for quite some time. There were many times when it was actually unavailable for a whole suite of reasons. The first thing I want to ask you is, when these Twitter files came out, and when Elon Musk took over Twitter and these Twitter files came out, what was your reaction to what you were seeing?

Ms. Raichik:

It was a very emotional night when I saw the Twitter files, but my first reaction was I just felt entirely vindicated. Because for months I had been growing my LibsofTikTok Twitter account, and I knew I wasn’t violating the rules. I was very careful to follow their guidelines, and I kept getting suspended. It was so frustrating. It seemed like every other week I was getting another suspension. And then, the Twitter files came out, and the Twitter employees were saying that I never violated the rules and they were just looking for any excuse to silence me. So, I felt vindicated. It was a great feeling. I know that a lot of other people also were mentioned in the Twitter files, and I’m really happy for them, because it really meant a lot.

Mr. Jekielek:

Why do you think your account was getting so much attention?

Ms. Raichik:

I think LibsofTikTok is really effective. We just showcase what the Left themselves are saying, and their views don’t hold up to scrutiny. They create this content and then I put it out there in their own words and they don’t really want us to see it. They want to just live in their bubble where everybody agrees with them. So, I’m posting this content and they just can’t handle it.

Mr. Jekielek:

But you do provide commentary on some of these, and some of it’s pretty pointed. I’ve been scrolling your feed recently.

Ms. Raichik:

As far as the actual videos, there’s no editing. As far as the commentary, it is very, very minimal commentary. It is probably the least commentary you’ll see from any account my size.

Mr. Jekielek:

How often do you get people sending you content?

Ms. Raichik:

My content now is sort of half and half. Half is what I find, and half is what people send to me. I get a lot of messages. I get hundreds a day. I have desperate parents who want me to help them expose the wokeness in their schools. I have people sending me TikToks sometimes. My platform really is about giving a voice to people who don’t have a platform. I’m able to share the stories of a lot of really concerned citizens.

Mr. Jekielek:

That’s amazing. Do you do this all alone? Do you have a team now or how does this work?

Ms. Raichik:

Pretty much just me. I basically spend all day, every day, going through all of my messages, and going through TikTok, and choosing what to post and how. A lot of the stories require research. I do have someone helping me a little bit part-time. But hopefully, we will expand.

Mr. Jekielek:

You did different things with your Twitter account before you seemed to settle on LibsofTikTok. I want to talk about the evolution of that. What was your thinking?

Ms. Raichik:

I joined Twitter, honestly, just for Trump, because his tweets were really funny. We all missed the mean tweets. I joined Twitter for that, and I was just starting to get into politics. It was during COVID, and then I stumbled across TikTok. I saw all of this really bizarre content, and I was like, “I need to show this to people, people need to see this, people need to see what’s going on.” So, I started posting the videos to Twitter. That’s really how LibsofTikTok started. And then, I changed the name to LibsofTikTok. It just came to me one day. I didn’t think about it too much, and the rest is history.

Mr. Jekielek:

When you started, you just wanted to consume content, and then you started experimenting with different things. I saw you had some health freedom-related things early on as well.

Ms. Raichik:

Yes. I wasn’t looking to go viral or to be famous. It was more just having fun. I had met some people through Twitter. We kind of would just change our usernames, and just have fun with some of the ideas that were floating during that time. I changed my username quite a few times before changing it to LibsofTikTok.

Mr. Jekielek:

As we go through this, I want to pull up a few posts that you made and get you to comment on them. Here’s one actually recently, January 16th, a teacher laughs about bringing political unrest in her school by pushing pronouns, showing up with purple hair, and mocking the Bible.

Video:

I have my first day as a sub today, and there are many things I would like to talk about, but today I would like to talk about how I am the political unrest that Cedar City needs. And I just realized that my hydroflask is in this video and that’s my “I Don’t Care What the Bible Says” sticker, which I forgot I left up at the front of the classroom when I was in the back office.

Mr. Jekielek:

How is it that you go about choosing these things?

Ms. Raichik:

I go to TikTok and I spend about 15 to 20 hours a week on TikTok. I have very high standards of quality for my content. In most of my content, I want to have a message. I’m not just laughing at people. All the videos have an underlying message. For this specific one and most of the ones that feature teachers, it’s really important to show what is going on in classrooms across America.

Mr. Jekielek:

What is it that you see on TikTok from these classrooms?

Ms. Raichik:

There is a lot of indoctrination and grooming going on in classrooms. TikTok, in general, is a cesspool for activists to target children. I think TikTok was designed to attract youth, and their algorithms are very sophisticated. It’s been discussed that it’s also sort of a weapon. TikTok is owned by China. It’s sort of a weapon to destroy us from within. So, TikTok is really the center for targeting kids with radical gender ideology.

Mr. Jekielek:

Explain to me what you mean by grooming, because this has become a controversial word.

Ms. Raichik:

Up until recently, if you wrote it on Twitter, then you were banned. Grooming is tearing down childhood innocence by confusing children with gender ideology, and about their identity. We’re seeing a lot of that in schools and in other institutions.

Mr. Jekielek:

Let’s talk about TikTok. On this show, we’ve extensively covered how TikTok does actually function as a weapon for the Chinese Communist Party, and may well be amplifying the types of things which foment social chaos for the benefit of the Chinese regime. For starters, you see a lot of what you describe as toxic content for 20 hours a week. How do you deal with that?

Ms. Raichik:

It’s tough sometimes, I’ll be honest. It’s very dark, it’s very depressing, it’s scary, but it’s so important. I push myself to scroll and to find content to show people what’s going on in classrooms. It’s not just teachers, it’s in every single field that we have these activists. In general, with the mental health crisis in America, I feature a lot of videos that show that.

Mr. Jekielek:

There are a few questions about these videos. Some people ask, and I’ve had this question myself, why are some of these folks admitting what they’re doing publicly on camera. They’re saying, “I’m doing something very subversive,” for example. A number of videos that you have featured talk about how they’re hiding things from parents. Why do you think people are posting these things?

Ms. Raichik:

TikTok attracts narcissists with the whole idea of an app where you go online and you just film yourself talking. Gender ideology in general is very narcissistic. It’s like, “These are my pronouns, this is my gender. Let me talk to you about how I want to be referred to and how you should refer to me.” It’s a really good match, those activists and TikTok, because TikTok is really a platform for narcissists. They love seeing themselves talking, and they love seeing themselves on camera. So, it’s perfect.

Mr. Jekielek:

Another thing you mentioned, you talked about gender ideology and LGBTQ. That’s not necessarily the same thing. There’s an account which seems somewhat aligned with what LibsofTikTok is doing called GazeAgainstGroomers. They would probably also say, “We’re part of the LGBTQ community.” But, they’re definitely against gender ideology. Do you ever communicate with folks like this?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes, I’ve been in contact with that account. They’re doing something really important and they don’t align with LGBTQ, I don’t think. They align with LGB. Their whole thing is LGB without the T, and obviously everything else that comes after that. That acronym just keeps getting longer. There’s a need for that, because there are a lot of people who are gay, and that’s fine. They just want to do that without being lumped in with all of the activists.

Mr. Jekielek:

I see. When you’re talking about this, you’re talking about the specific people that have this gender ideology orientation.

Ms. Raichik:

Exactly.

Mr. Jekielek:

I see. That’s interesting. It wasn’t necessarily obvious to me before. When it comes to TikTok, I had an interview with January Littlejohn, who’s daughter was socially transitioned in school, transitioned without her knowledge. One of the things that she talks about is these accounts on TikTok, where basically people encourage confused youth. “If you do all the things that will make you trans, follow the trans ideology, we’ll create this family for you, this very, warm, safe space.” Do you see this kind of content?

Ms. Raichik:

I see a lot of that content. They specifically target children who already have something else in their life which is bringing them down. There has been reporting how they target autistic children or they target kids from broken homes. They entice them, and they say, “Look, join our community. You’ll feel loved, you’ll feel accepted, you’ll get attention.”

So, they do prey on confused children, children who are struggling to begin with, and also, children struggling with gender dysphoria, which is a real struggle. I really feel for children who are struggling with that. Instead of helping these kids with their issues, they’re saying, “Oh, come join us. We’ll affirm you and you’ll only have love and acceptance.” So, it sounds good for a child.

Mr. Jekielek:

From what I understand from studies, most of that gender dysphoria will resolve on its own.

Ms. Raichik:

That’s what I believe. I’ve read a lot of similar studies, yes.

Mr. Jekielek:

I want to talk about your background, before Twitter and TikTok, back when you were in Brooklyn, and you were in real estate. You had a regular job, but then things changed.

Ms. Raichik:

I quit my job to run LibsofTikTok. I’m a Hasidic Jew and there’s a concept in Judaism that every single person is in this world for a reason. Every person has a purpose. I feel that through running “LibsofTikTok”, this is my mission now, and I’m very empowered to continue doing it.

Mr. Jekielek:

How is it that you ended up working with Seth Dillon?

Ms. Raichik:

Around the time that I was doxed, Seth reached out and he offered support. He shared how he believed in my mission, he believed in what I was doing, and he wanted to help me. So, we now work together. Seth is one of the most incredible people I’ve ever met, definitely the most incredible person I’ve ever worked with, and I’m so grateful to have him.

Mr. Jekielek:

Let’s talk about this doxing, because that’s when you definitely got a lot of attention. What happened there?

Ms. Raichik:

My account was anonymous, like most Twitter accounts, and then the far-Left media sent their little minion from the Washington Post to dox me. They thought that it would intimidate me into silence or scare me. Obviously, that was ever going to happen. Taylor Lorenz from the Washington Post shared my name and my location, and then obviously I wasn’t anonymous anymore.

It was very stressful, chaotic, overwhelming, and I never imagined this would happen. But the silver lining is LibsofTiktok’s influence skyrocketed. Our follower count tripled. We got so much bigger. The whole point of LibsofTikTok is just to show the content. If more people are seeing it, that’s a win. There are good things to come out of everything and that is one of them.

Mr. Jekielek:

The idea behind the account is that you just want people to see it, right? What do you think that accomplishes?

Ms. Raichik:

There’s a few things. Number one, when it comes to things like radical gender theory and critical race theory, we’ve been told by the far-Left that it’s not happening. The drag queen entertainment for children we’re told, “Oh, it’s not happening. These things are not happening. It’s a Right-wing conspiracy theory.” And then, I come in with firsthand evidence of teachers and drag queens talking about these things and saying, “Yes, I’m doing this.”

The other thing is that my account really is just centered on protecting the innocence of children. That’s the main focus. I do that by showing what these people themselves are saying they want to do, and how they want to tear apart childhood innocence. We need to do something about it. I know that a lot of legislators have used LibsofTikTok’s content in order to bring up legislation to protect children. I’m really grateful for that.

Mr. Jekielek:

Yes, I heard that it played some role in forming the Parental Rights in Education bill in Florida, for example. I don’t know if you’ve heard that as well?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes.

Mr. Jekielek:

Did people contact you about that specifically?

Ms. Raichik:

I heard from people on DeSantis’ team that the videos inspired the creation of and helped to pass the bill. They thought of the bill, they wanted to do it, and they had to garner support for it in the Florida House. How can you get support for it if you don’t have the proof and the evidence that it’s actually a problem? I’ve been told that they were able to use some of the content from LibsofTikTok to help get support for the bill.

Mr. Jekielek:

Going back to the doxing, I’m just remembering you said that Governor DeSantis also offered you a place to live. Is this right?

Ms. Raichik:

It was the day I was doxed, and someone from DeSantis’ team called me and said, “The governor wanted me to give you a message that you’re welcome to come stay in the governor’s mansion if you need a place to stay, if you need to hide.” I was obviously really touched. He obviously has a full plate. He’s very busy. He’s the governor of one of the largest states. And he took time out of his day to make sure that I had a safe place to go.

Mr. Jekielek:

Why do you think he did that?

Ms. Raichik:

I actually had the opportunity to meet him a few times in person, and I was kind of like the underdog, and he was looking out for the underdog, which I think is a really good quality. I was working alone. Now, people saw my background through the doxing story, and it was clear that I didn’t have backup. I don’t really have a lot of resources. I’m a total outsider who just decided to make a difference, to come in, and to do this work. And I think he felt like he wanted to step in and help me because of that.

Mr. Jekielek:

Did you need to hide? What happened? What was the reaction?

Ms. Raichik:

So, I did need to hide. It was confusing, because now my name is out there, so what comes next? It’s making quick decisions and trying to figure out what to do. For a couple days after, for about a week actually, I went to stay somewhere else in a secure private location, because I didn’t know what was going to happen. Were there going to be people coming and egging my home? I didn’t know, I had no idea.

I did go into hiding and thank God nothing happened. But, I had to take the precaution and I did get a spike in death threats. I did file a few police reports. I did have to do that. Even now, I still take a lot of precautions. I’m going to do whatever I have to do to protect myself. But, it just shows this is the whole reason I was anonymous to begin with, because the far-Left has no problem with violence. They’ve shown that.

Mr. Jekielek:

When you said a spike in death threats, does that mean that you get them regularly?

Ms. Raichik:

Every single day.

Mr. Jekielek:

Wow. What’s that like?

Ms. Raichik:

Some are trolls, but if it sounds serious, then I’ll file a police report. I know that the police have visited at least one of the people that I reported. It exactly validates why I’m doing this, because they want me silenced so badly with the doxing, the death threats, all of the lies they make up about me, and the insults and slurs that they call me.

It just shows how important the account is when you get so much backlash and pushback. I’m never going to stop doing it. They could call me any name they want, and they could send me any amount of death threats. I’m not scared.

Mr. Jekielek:

From these accounts that you’ve showcased, do people ever reach out to you in a way that isn’t just simply angry, or in a way that you might actually be able to have some dialogue?

Ms. Raichik:

Never.

Mr. Jekielek:

Something that I’m concerned about a lot is that there is this very deep polarization. It can be Left or Right. It can be liberty versus control. There are many, many different ways in which this polarization manifests. Somehow, we have to find some kind of common ground. Do you ever think about that?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes, the majority of the country has a lot of common ground. There’s also the extreme far-Right. Anything too extreme is not good. But, specifically with the extreme far-Left, with their activism, indoctrination, and grooming efforts, I don’t want to have anything to do with that.

Mr. Jekielek:

You talk about the extreme far-Left, but it would seem, especially on TikTok, that this group has a disproportionate influence.

Ms. Raichik:

That’s exactly right. They do have a disproportionate amount of influence. They’re very loud, they’re very demanding, and they’re very controlling. They demand that we all change our language, we change our actions, and we change our culture. They demand all those things. It feels like they’re controlling every single aspect of our society, because you’re not allowed to have any opposition. We’re not allowed to criticize them, and we’re not allowed to call them out. We just have to do exactly as they say.

Mr. Jekielek:

Maybe I’ll get you to comment on another piece, and this is something from back in September of 2021. You titled it, “This Insanity Is Happening On College Campuses”.

Video:

Okay, this white man thinks he can take up our space and this is why we need a multicultural space, because they think they can get away with this .

I’m going to sit here the whole time and you can find somebody to kick me out.

That’s cool. We will.

We’re not kicking you out. We’re asking you to leave if you have any consideration for people of color and our marginalization.

They clearly don’t.

Is there a room that I can go to?

Yes, the whole rest of the campus, the whole… The second floor, the first floor, the whole MU, every single part of the campus centers you. This is the only space that you’re not centered and you’re still trying to center yourself, which is peak white cis male.

Mr. Jekielek:

This was a massive one. This is one that really gave your account a huge push. Tell me about that.

Ms. Raichik:

There was a video of two white students in a multicultural center on campus at Arizona State University, and they got harassed and attacked by two non-white students. Those students were saying, “We don’t feel safe with your presence here. You can’t be here.” In the end, the two other students had to apologize to the white students. They had to issue a statement. I think they got reprimanded. And the two white students got a lot of support. There was even a GoFundMe for them.

It just shows that colleges are a breeding ground for Democratic activists. That’s where they really teach them to become activists for the Democratic party. If you look at teachers too, where did they learn this? All these young teachers who are pushing gender ideology onto their students, where did they learn that? They’re young, most of them. They just went through a couple years in college and that’s where they learned all of it. Colleges are teaching these young people to go out and become activists. Those students were probably taught in college that they should behave that way towards white people.

Mr. Jekielek:

In this particular video, you mentioned the students had to walk back what they did, at least there was some kind of reprimand. In another case, you said that your content was used by people crafting the Parental Rights in Education bill. Do you have some other examples of how running LibsofTikTok has affected society or changed the discourse?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes. There have probably been about a dozen teachers who lost their jobs after posting videos of themselves on TikTok, bragging about what they were doing to their students. I took those videos, posted them on Twitter, and then they lost their jobs, were placed on leave, were reprimanded, things like that. I know that there’s a lot of discourse now about drag. I helped mainstream it through LibsofTikTok to show how pervasive it is, and why it’s problematic for children.

And then, we saw there was some legislation. It was Tennessee that proposed a bill that would criminalize drag queens performing for children. There was a bar in Florida that lost their liquor license after the video went viral. More recently, again in Florida, they were threatening to take action against venues that were going to host drag events for children.

Mr. Jekielek:

There’s a lot of people that are very demoralized right now, in this country, in this society.

Ms. Raichik:

I feel that too. It could feel really depressing when you realize that so many people in the government are corrupt and it feels like everything is just going downhill in society and in our culture. But I’m actually really hopeful right now, because the first step to fixing something is to realize there’s a problem. Recently, there’s been a lot of talk about this problem. People are waking up and people are realizing that things are going to change soon.

Mr. Jekielek:

Elon Musk has been talking a lot about citizen journalism. Do you imagine yourself that way? What do you think?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes, 100 per cent. It’s not just the government and the three letter agencies, it’s the media too. People are realizing that they’re just full of garbage and untrustworthy. Independent journalism spiked a lot recently and it’s going to continue to spike. LibsofTikTok is probably a really good example of that. I am with Elon on that. Citizen journalism is so important and it’s only going to get bigger. And the power of the media is going to go way down.

Mr. Jekielek:

I’m going to pick another one of your posts. This is a bit different from your normal mode of posting a TikTok video. You say a school board member of Jackson Public Schools has a history of making racist comments. She says whiteness is evil and causes trauma and calls white people stupid, dangerous, and difficult to be near. So, this is another kind of newer format for LibsofTikTok. Tell me about this.

Ms. Raichik:

Half my content is TikToks and the other half is other content like screenshots and pictures. I write articles too on my Substack, libsoftiktok.com. It obviously started with just TikToks, but then I kept seeing all this other content and I thought it needed to be shared. So, it’s still the same idea. I provide very, very little commentary.

I posted screenshots from that school board member of tweets that she had sent. I just summarized what she was saying in those tweets. It’s obviously racist. This person is in charge of the education of thousands of people. If I had a child in that district who was white, I don’t know how I would feel about that. She obviously hates white people, so I don’t know how she could be in charge of the education of white people when she hates them and is openly racist towards them.

Mr. Jekielek:

Are you aware that you’re referred to on the Anti-Defamation League’s website?

Ms. Raichik:

What do they refer to me as?

Mr. Jekielek:

It says that you attempt to generate outrage and stoke anti-LGBTQ hostility by reposting selected out-of-context social media content created by LGBTQ+ people and liberals. And, of course, Anti-Defamation League is a group that says it’s fighting anti-Semitism.

Ms. Raichik:

Interesting. I am probably listed on a lot of websites in the same vein. They label me all kinds of things. They label me homophobic, transphobic, and anti-Semitic, interestingly. My answer to that is it’s not hateful, or homophobic, or dangerous, or violent. They call me violent a lot for posting public videos onto Twitter. What is hateful, and dangerous, and harmful, is sterilizing and mutilating children, exposing children to inappropriate adult entertainment, giving kids pornography in school, and confusing children about their identity. Those are the things that I feature in the videos that are actually harmful and dangerous.

Mr. Jekielek:

This is another thing I wanted to ask you about. When you say pornography in schools, what are you talking about?

Ms. Raichik:

There are a lot of books in thousands of schools across the country that basically have pornographic content in them. These books are available to children, to minors. I featured a lot of that type of content on my account. It’s so important to show what your kids are reading in schools. People ask me, “What should I do? I found these books in the library at my kid’s school. “ And I say, “All you have to do is open up the book to one of the pages and just show them what the book says.” They can’t defend it when you do that, because there’s literally pornography in the books.

And so, people have been showing up at school board meetings, and reading from these books, and showing pictures from them, and that’s really the way to tackle this problem. When they do that, the school board members are oftentimes very shocked. There are a lot of times where they shut down the parent, they say, “Okay, stop reading. It’s too graphic. There are kids in this room. It might be illegal to expose children to this.” That’s exactly the point. These books are in schools for children, but they’re saying that it’s too graphic for adults. How does it make sense?

Mr. Jekielek:

Are you aware of schools having removed that content?

Ms. Raichik:

Yes.

Mr. Jekielek:

Okay.

Ms. Raichik:

There have been quite a few that after I have called them out removed those books.

Mr. Jekielek:

People will say, “You’re getting books banned, Chaya. That doesn’t sound very good.”

Ms. Raichik:

Whenever I’m called a book banner, I just show images from the book and they can’t defend it. You just have to show them what’s in the books. It’s the most effective way. And then, they have no answer. Are they going to admit that they want kids to read porn?

Mr. Jekielek:

The truth seems to be a very powerful weapon.

Ms. Raichik:

Exactly.

Mr. Jekielek:

What do you think are the consequences of the truth being lost among some of these legacy media?

Ms. Raichik:

The Left-wing media is basically just a mouthpiece for the Democratic party. It’s been going on for a long time. It obviously got a lot worse in the last few years. They’re just losing all of their credibility. They’re all losing their ratings, and they’re dropping like flies. CNN Plus was totally canceled. They got rid of Brian Stelter. A lot of these shows are just plummeting, because they’re just activists and they’re just repeating the narrative that they are given.

Mr. Jekielek:

What does a positive future look like for you?

Ms. Raichik:

In regard to LibsofTikTok, or just how I want to see our country?

Mr. Jekielek:

How do you want to see our country?

Ms. Raichik:

I would love to see radical gender theory completely eradicated from all our institutions. It’s sowing chaos, division, and confusion among our children. The reason that we’re all fighting today is for our children. What kind of country do we want to raise our kids in and do we want to leave to our children and grandchildren? It’s so important to protect the innocence of children.

Mr. Jekielek:

Chaya, any final thoughts as we finish up?

Ms. Raichik:

My message is that every single person has the power to make a difference. Look at me, for example, I am just an individual, an outsider with a Twitter account and an idea. And look what we accomplished. So, if you see something, you need to speak up, go to school board meetings, go to city council meetings, run for school board, post it on social media, and send it to me to post.

Mr. Jekielek:

Chaya Raichik, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Ms. Raichik:

It was such a great opportunity. Thank you for inviting me and I’m glad we had this conversation.

Mr. Jekielek:

Thank you all for joining Chaya Raichik and me on this episode of “American Thought Leaders”. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.

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